Legislature(1997 - 1998)
02/18/1997 05:00 PM House WTR
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HJR 14 - SUPPORT AMERICAN LAND SOVEREIGNTY ACT The first order of business to come before the House Special Committee on World Trade and State/Federal Relations was HJR 14, Relating to supporting the "American Land Sovereignty Protection Act." CHAIR RAMONA BARNES called on Representative Jeannette James, sponsor of HJR 14, to present the resolution to the committee members. REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES read the following sponsor statement into the record: "I have proposed this legislation on the premise that my greatest responsibility as an Alaskan and as an Alaskan State Legislator is to protect and defend the sovereignty of our Great State, and, further, to support protection of sovereignty of our Great Nation. "A little known fact is that, in 1971, the United States joined the U.N. program calling for establishing `biosphere reserves' around the world. These reserves are surrounded by buffer zones that restrict human behavior. Forty seven national parks, which cover 51 million acres of land, are classified as these sanctuaries. Sixty-eight percent of our national parks, preserves and monuments have been designated to the United National Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), to Biosphere Reserves and World Heritage Sites, without any legislative or congressional direction. "Most disturbing is that 40.7 million acres of this land designated to UNESCO are in the State of Alaska. A World Heritage Site in Alaska is the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve (13.2 million acres). There are six Biosphere Reserves: Admiralty Island National Monument (921,000 acres); Aleutian Islands National Wildlife Refuge (2.7 million acres); Denali National Park and Preserve (6.5 million acres); Gates of the Arctic National Park and Preserve (7.5 million acres); Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve (3.3 million acres); and Noatak National Preserve (6.6 million acres). "There is legitimate concern about some possible international interference during the decision processes on domestic lands. Too often, we Alaskans have found ourselves under federal oversight with no recourse. "Soon we may find ourselves under International oversight! We must not let this happen. This legislation will reaffirm the constitutional authority of the Congress as elected representatives of the people over the land of the United States. We want the Congress to make these decisions with a public process, not the President or his appointees. Please join with me in urging that the `American Land Sovereignty Protection Act' be reintroduced and passed by the United States House of Representatives and the United States Senate as soon as possible during the 105th Congress." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES further stated that an extended concern of hers regarding the biosphere reserves was that they were surrounded by a buffer zone. Sometimes the buffer zone was just as big as the biosphere itself, and in the buffer zone human behavior was restricted. Therefore, private land was also involved in this issue. This sounded innocent, but "certainly we need not to take these pieces of property and put them under a foreign flag-so to speak-without any Congressional approval or oversight." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES further stated she would be happy to answer any questions. Myrna L. McGhie, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeannette James, was also here to answer any questions. Number 063 CHAIR BARNES asked Representative James, if there had ever been a time in United State's history where it had allowed an international organization to control or designate parts of its land, without an act of Congress? Number 066 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied, "To my knowledge, there has not, with the exception of this activity." Number 069 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT asked Representative James if this bill was an executive lands taking bill on behalf of the international community without Congressional consent? REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied, "That's a pretty good summary of what I would say that it is." Number 077 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT further asked Representative James if she had any classic examples of the buffer zones she mentioned earlier? Number 080 MYRNA L. MCGHIE, Legislative Assistant to Representative Jeannette James, stated there was a picture from the internet in the package of information provided. Number 083 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES explained Yellowstone National Park had a buffer zone that extended 250 miles around the edge of the park. Number 086 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stated that the United States had been involved since 1971 and it was not until the 104th Congress that a bill was introduced. He asked Representative James if that was because the current Administration was more active in creating these zones, or was it just time? Number 095 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied, "I can't answer that specifically as to what prompted that." She believed it had to deal with the fact that the United States had been taking a real good look at the restrictions and conditions placed on its land as a result of the Endangered Species Act. and other acts. It was true that this Administration had been more aggressive in shutting down the activity. The signing of the 1993 Bio-Diversity Treaty by President Clinton promised to put 50 percent of the land in the U.S. into wilderness. The treaty had yet to receive Congressional approval, however. Thus, the President was quietly implementing some of the activity of the Bio-Diversity Treaty. She reiterated that this Administration had been more aggressive in restricting access to lands and tying up lands. It was scary when Alaska was about one-fifth the size of the U.S., and such a massive amount of land in federal control. "If they're going to put 50 percent of the land in the United States in wilderness, where would they start?" This was startling to think about especially since Babbitt decided not to give Alaska any rights on its RS 2477s. Number 127 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN asked Representative James to explain her comments surrounding President Clinton and the signing of the Bio-Diversity Treaty. Was that provided as back-up material for the committee members? REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied, "No. I just made that statement." She explained it had to do with the gathering in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil when President Bush would not sign anything. In 1993, President Clinton signed the Bio-Diversity Treaty which was an outcropping of the meeting in Brazil. She reiterated the treaty needed Congressional approval. However, "They're still implementing parts of that treaty as we speak." REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN replied even though it had not been signed. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied even though it had not been approved by Congress. Number 147 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated that it was necessary to show a pattern for the record to help support the efforts of Representative James. Number 150 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES responded, "We can certainly provide that. We have massive amounts of information pulled from the internet and all the various other places." She would be willing to include that information with the bill. Number 154 CHAIR BARNES stated she would appreciate it if Representative James provided that information. More importantly, however, if the resolution left the committee, that information should become part of the public record when it went to the floor. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied she could build nice support out of the material she had gathered. Number 163 REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA stated he was not sure about the resolution. "I don't know if this is one of these things that people are afraid that the United Nations was taking over America." He did not understand what the resolution meant. For example, if something was designated a world heritage site by the United Nations, what did that mean? What affect did that have? he asked. Number 173 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied the part that concerned her was the biosphere reserves. It sounded innocent and it was a good idea, however, it should not be done without Congressional approval. "There's a Constitutional authority for the Congress to be over all of our domestic lands." And, here were lands that were being put into a different kind of system that would be overlooked and overseen by a United Nations organization without Congressional approval. If there wasn't a problem, then present it to Congress for approval. And, the biggest problem with the biosphere reserves was that there were inn holders with private property within these parks. There had been an effort to try to get them other land outside of the sphere, but, meanwhile they were there without the same rights as other private land owners. Furthermore, the buffer zone was even more distressing because human activity was restricted. The idea was to monitor the activity in the transitional area and watch what happened in the biosphere reserve. That sounded innocent enough and maybe that was a good scientific project. But, she asked, "How much of this do we need and how is each one of those going to affect the people that are involved in and around there?" This should be done by a public process; not by a stroke of a pen by an administrator. CHAIR BARNES announced the arrival of Speaker Gail Phillips. Number 223 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated he agreed with Representative James that Congressional action should be taken rather than an executive order. He asked Representative James if she was aware of any other areas besides the parks that had been designated? Number 234 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied only those that she listed earlier. There was one world heritage site-the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve. The other six biosphere reserves that she named were in Alaska. Number 238 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked Representative James if the ones in Alaska were done by Congressional authority or were they all done by the stroke of a pen? Number 240 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied they were all done by the stroke of a pen. She read the following statement by Lois McHugh, Analyst in International Relations-Foreign Affairs and National Defense Division: "Inclusion on the World Heritage List increases knowledge and interest in sites throughout the world. It also brings international attention and support to protect endangered sites. In 1993, the World Heritage Committee supported the United States in protecting Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve by publicizing U.S. concerns about a Canadian open pit mine near the Bay and reminding the Canadian government of its obligations under the Convention to protect the site. In 1996, international concern, including concern raised by U.S. citizens, was instrumental in changing the plans of a Polish company to build a shopping center near Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland." CHAIR BARNES further stated this was a worldwide issue. "We had some influence there, they had some influence here. We have totally lost our sovereignty control over this land that is within our borders. It is now managed by an agreement outside of the United States." Number 260 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked Representative James if any of the information in his folder described the biosphere and what it encompassed? Number 265 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied, "I don't believe that we have a description." She would provide him information later. Number 267 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT referred the committee members to page 4 of the handout title, "American Land Sovereignty Protection Act of 1996." It talked about world heritage sites and national monuments recognized by UNESCO. And, of course, UNESCO in itself was a devious animal, he declared. Number 284 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Representative James if there had been a constitutional challenge regarding the land areas? It seemed that Article IV, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution talked about the powers of the need for Congress to make rules and regulations governing the lands that belonged to the United States. Yet, there was not Congressional oversight or approval of these areas in question. It seemed that there was difficulty in matching what was being done with the provision in the U.S. Constitution, unless-of course-the President was using an executive order. Number 297 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied the Antiquities Act of 1906 was one of the ways that the government was setting lands aside which was a Congressional decision. She did not know if the sum of the lands that the government had been taking as parks was done under the Antiquities Act, however. There was nothing in the Act to give authority to an out-of-the country organization or worldwide organization. That was the point and that was the claim in Congressman Don Young's legislation. Number 314 CHAIR BARNES stated what concerned her was that people fought over land within the borders of countries. It seemed that instead of fighting war we were just signing the land away. She asked Representative James if that was a fair assumption? Number 318 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied that was her assumption too. In response to Representative Kubina's concern she stated, "Much of us do have our head in the sand and these little things don't seem like big things until all of a sudden you get a lot of them." Therefore, it's important to feel safe and to feel that there had been a public process to make these decisions. Number 325 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA stated that he did not know much about this issue other than what he had read in the package of information provided. He suspected that this was similar to what was happening to the Amazon in South America-damage that affected the world's climate. "I assume that an organization like this is trying to say how do we deal with this when we know that's not a good way to handle it and it may affect the weather patterns in the whole world. And, so how else do you do it-I guess-other than say okay now we set up some kind of standard in the world because the world is getting so small." He agreed, whole heartedly that we should not give up control of our lands. "How do we talk to other people about protecting their land if we don't say, at least, that we're protecting ours?" This was pure speculation about what was going on, however. Number 342 CHAIR BARNES replied that was an interesting speculation. She stated that she appreciated the rainforest and the Amazon River, but it was within the country to deal with those issues. "It should not be things that we impose from a world organization from the outside." At least, that was her assumption. She reiterated, "History has noted that we normally fight wars over control of land and it seems to me that we're giving up land that nobody has fired a bullet over in this case." CHAIR BARNES further expressed her commendation for Representative James to bring this issue forward. Number 357 GARRY CADD was the first person to testify in Juneau. He worked for Representative Mark Hodgins, but he was speaking today on behalf of himself. He wondered if that was possible. CHAIR BARNES replied there was a rule in the legislature that staff did not speak on behalf of themselves. "But, since you're here, we'll make an exception this time." MR. CADD explained he drove to Juneau via the Haines Junction cutoff. At 3:00 in the morning he noticed the Kluani National Wilderness sign. The sign also said world heritage. Moreover, eighteen months ago President Clinton made the statement that the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) would not be opened up for oil drilling because there were plans to turn it into a world park or a research area. He was concerned because the biosphere research areas would be controlled and governed by a committee of which the leader would be from the country that the land was in. In addition, there was no oversight from Congress as to who the members would be. Subsequent statements made by the President and the Vice President surrounding ANWR indicated they were thinking of incorporating ANWR into the Canadian national park just across the border. He also noted that the Canadians were thinking about turning that park into a world heritage site. Therefore, he wondered if there was the possibility of losing ANWR and the possibility of drilling there forever. "There's an opportunity for something to happen here that we probably should be keeping our eyes on." Number 389 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN asked Representative James if she had asked the national parks and the wildlife refuges to provide an overlay to determine if the buffer zones went outside of the original design of the parks? Number 395 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied, "No I haven't." She explained the national park and the state park officials wanted to deny access along the area of the Denali National Park for snowmobiles and for other kinds of uses. When they were asked why they were doing this, they could not give a reason. She suspected, however, that the national park service was doing this to restrict the buffer zone area. She planned to research that further for more information. There was absolutely no reason for the restriction except because they thought it was a good idea. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES further stated that it was easy to address environmental issue when there was money involved. And, in this country there was an industry and an economy that allowed for the rules and regulations to protect the environment. But, in other countries there was no way to protect the environment, especially in the poorer countries. "But, if you tighten it down so much so that all of the land is taken off as an option, and you crowd them in so that everything is reserved and there is not enough left for the people to make a living on, then we'll have the same problems in this country because people will cut trees. They will do the things that they have to to survive. Even if they have to do it as outlaws." She agreed with Chair Barnes that wars were fought over land. And, "If we continue in the process that we're doing, there will be wars fought over our land in not too many years. We have to be very cautious and take innocent steps as we go through this process and do it with a good open mind and public process." Number 432 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stated he was still puzzled regarding the constitutional concern he mentioned earlier. It seemed that by becoming a party to these international land use areas through executive branch action, the U.S. was bringing to terms international treaties, of which, we were not a party to. He cited the Bio-Diversity Treaty, of which, the Senate failed to ratify. "We do have a definite problem regarding the separations of powers and the checks and balances that were built into the Constitution in 1787." He commended the honorable Don Young for bringing forth this matter before Congress. He hoped that he would bring if forth again. Number 444 CHAIR BARNES called on a motion to move the resolution from the committee. Number 445 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN moved that HJR 14 move from the committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). There was no objection, HJR 14 was so moved from the House Special Committee on World Trade and State/Federal Relations.
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